we asked you why you're awake? john? >> with all we have today? >> erin in long island. now the sky is dropping meteorites. not able to sleep. >> we haven't confirmed this, but a lot of video out of russia last night. this is crazy stuff. morgan freeman "deep impact" type stuff. 400 people injured. nutso stuff out of russia. we have enough to worry about, don't we, everyone? great show, everyone. tgif. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ rock the boat ♪ don't tip the boat over ♪ rock the boat ♪ don't rock the boat baby >> united states ain't nothing better. >> we didn't have water. we didn't have showers. we didn't have hot meals. >> it was literally like being

in a floating port-a-potty. just human waste everywhere. >> they had a sign outside their cabin saying "need medication." basically they ran out of their medication and their basic needs. >> the crew on the boat, unbelievable. those guys had worse conditions than we did, and they were serving us. >> what's the first thing you're going to do? >> chick-fil-a, i think. >> all right. good morning. it is friday and one hell of a good friday for those thousands of passengers who are now back on land and off that cruise ship. it's february 15th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have the former governor of pennsylvania and nbc news political analyst, ed rendell. the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. good lord, what's going on in washington? and in washington, nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. >> good morning. >> joe, you know, i always had a

thing about cruises. i just -- i'm not -- >> same here. we've talked about it. but i've got to say, i've got to say, here's the great news. >> please, yeah. >> the great news is that because of the problems with this cruise line, everything else, all other news in the world stops. >> right. >> like if you looked at cnn yesterday afternoon, the killing in syria, it came to an end. >> it did. >> yesterday on capitol hill, republicans and democrats hugged. the whole idea of an historic hold on the secretary of defense, they said, you know what? let's put this to the side because of this cruise ship debacle. i mean, mika, all of the things we worry about -- the national debt clock stopped. >> basically the world stopped. >> we don't have to worry. paul krugman's right. we don't have to worry anymore because cnn tells us that this cruise ship was the only story that mattered yesterday for 24

hours. >> that's right. >> and you know what? makes me feel pretty good about the state of the world. >> and i'm glad they're home. >> that nothing is happening to that degree that they can do that. i think that's very exciting for all of us. i'm very pleased. >> it's very good when the world stops to be told that. >> perspective it be reassuring. >> it's all relative. that's true. >> it's all relative. syria, come on. people are dying. middle east peace breaking up. that doesn't matter. the national debt. chuck hagel. that doesn't matter. there's a cruise ship outside of mobile bay. let's get a helicopter on them. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. >> that's quite a move. >> one little problem. >> what? what's that? >> the world didn't actually stop. and other things are happening. and hagel's -- >> oh, okay. >> -- vote was delayed. it will be well over another week before the senate reconsiders the nomination of chuck hagel. >> really? >> at the pentagon. >> this is the first time hearing of this. when did this happen? did they make this decision on the cruise ship? >> no. no, they didn't.

it actually happened in washington. >> really? that's fascinating. >> which is its own permanent port-a-potty. >> okay. mika, for those of us that were just sitting there looking at a cruise ship for 24 hours instead of following the real news, why don't you catch us up with what actually happened yesterday in the news. >> republicans blocked a vote yesterday that would have ended the debate and allowed for a final decision one way or another. democrats fell just shy of the votes needed to advance the process. something president obama chalked up to partisan politics. >> there's nothing in the constitution that says that somebody should get 60 votes. there are only a handful of instances in which there's been any kind of filibuster of anybody for a cabinet position in our history. and what seems to be happening -- and this has been growing over time -- is the republican minority in the senate seem to think that the rule now is that you have to

have 60 votes for everything. well, that's not the rule. it's just unfortunate that this kind of politics intrudes at a time when i'm still presiding over a war in afghanistan, and i need a secretary of defense who is coordinating with our allies to make sure that our troops are getting the kind of strategy and mission that they deserve. >> joe, senator john mccain offered a different -- and this is -- actually, i felt better after i heard this -- he offered a different rationale for the republican opposition. it's personal. it's one that dates back to the bush presidency. >> oh, okay. >> there's a lot of ill will towards senator hagel because when he was a republican, he attacked president bush mercilessly. at one point said he was the worst president since herbert hoover, said that the surge was the worst blunder since the vietnam war, which is nonsense.

and was very anti his own party and people. people don't forget that. you can disagree, but if you're disagreeable, then people don't forget that. >> oh, okay. >> you know, richard haass, for the 66,000 troops currently serving in afghanistan and for the families all across america this morning, i'm sure they're glad to know that we don't have a secretary of defense in place and we're not going to because of a seven-year-old political grudge. forget about sequestration. forget about all the cuts. there are men and women on the ground in afghanistan today fighting and possibly dying for this country, and they don't have a secretary of defense running the pentagon because of a six or seven-year-old grudge? really? >> he's disagreeable. >> is that how small we've

become? and because this guy is disagreeable? richard, sort of frightening, isn't it? >> i actually think, know, what john mccain said has the virtue of being true. chuck hagel has gotten under a lot of people's skin over the years because he speaks out, and often he speaks out without being as careful, quote, unquote, as a lot of people in washington tend to be. so a lot of republicans really have resented him for a while. plus i think his performance at his confirmation hearing took a little bit of -- what's the word -- the ballast, if you will, out of those who were inclined to support him. plus you've got, if you will, typical washington dysfunctionality and the idea of holds and filibusters and all of that slowing down the workings of government. but i actually think that john mccain's -- >> you know, though, richard that in the end, we're hearing in the end most likely he's going to pass and be secretary of defense. so why hold him up over a recess when the pentagon desperately needs somebody at the helm?

>> because in a funny sort of way, joe, it's exactly what mccain said. it's a way of getting their pound of flesh. it's a way of sending a message to hagel. and it's just a way of almost acting out the kind of rancor and just the dislike that is out there. >> you seem awfully calm about this and resolved that this is just the way washington works. does this not trouble you at all? >> of course it troubles me, but it's also just the way that washington works. i do think in the end chuck hagel will get the job. and as you say, this is not about defense policy. what is so extraordinary is we actually have major defense issues from sequestration to the pivot towards asia, you name it. and none of this is part of it. and so you mentioned before the budget. what you're seeing here on virtually every issue is the gap between inside the beltway political debate and what ought to be the policy debate. that's the issue -- that's what makes me unhappy. chuck hagel will ultimately get

through. he'll be weakened as a result of all this, but he'll get through, and he'll have an opportunity to do well or not to do well as secretary of defense. i'm much more worried, if you will, about the state of our politics. >> willie. >> andrea mitchell in washington, we've heard now several different reasons from republican senators standing between chuck hagel and confirmation. we heard it was about benghazi. they wanted more information from the white house. it was about his speaking engagements. they want to know if he had any investments with foreign countries. and now we hear about a personal grudge from seven years ago with president bush. you've covered foreign policy in washington for a long time. can you put this into some kind of perspective, historically? how rare is it for this to happen to a president's nominee? >> well, this is very rare. i mean, it's unprecedented. i covered the john tower nomination. he was the former chairman of the committee of the armed services committee. and that was also something that john mccain brought up yesterday. that's part of the grudge match. he wasn't filibustered because the administration just lost that one.

but this filibuster with a recess permits the opposition to keep upping the ante. i mean, one of the things that you and joe are pointing out here is that every time chuck hagel turns a corner, they're flowing something else up there. benghazi wasn't even on his watch. they used it to try to get leverage. to try to get more information about what the president did on that night. did he go to bed? was he calling the pentagon? who was in charge? something that they could have asked in another context. they did get a letter from the white house lawyer yesterday which responded at least to that question. but it's benghazi. it's ted cruz raising the speeches and throwing out suggestions completely unsupported by fact that, what if he took money from north korea? from iran? none of that happened. but it was out there to the point where john mccain came to his defense. so as this keeps going, there's a drip, drip, drip. they'll keep finding another speech that they can take. and my concern i think from the administration's perspective also is that you're not going to

get a final vote because they'll keep bringing up some other thing. and this thing -- he keeps getting weaker over the recess. >> okay. we've got other news to cover, joe. the nra is back in the news. wayne lapierre called the president a hypocrite. i'll hold off on that one. because i want to get to elizabeth warren. i don't know if you guys saw this. did you see this? >> yeah. the s.e.c.? >> i don't know if it's just me. >> mika, was she on the cruise ship yesterday? >> no, but the banking regular -- >> because if she did anything yesterday, i certainly wouldn't have seen it unless she was on the cruise ship. if i were watching cnn. >> let's put it this way. the banking regulators that she was grilling actually wished they were on that cruise ship. and on it for ten more days. >> really? >> yes, after she was done with them. >> wow! i guess i should have switched channels. all right. let's see what happened yesterday. >> this is senator elizabeth warren. pretty comfortable during her

debut yesterday on the senate banking committee. she just had a few questions for the nation's bank regulators, direct questions. they couldn't answer. take a look. >> can you identify when you last took the wall street banks to trial? >> i will have to get back to you with the specific information. >> anyone else want to tell me about the last time you took a wall street bank to trial? you know, i just want to note on this, there are district attorneys and u.s. attorneys who are out there every day squeezing ordinary citizens on sometimes very thin grounds and taking them to trial in order to make an example, as they put it. i'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big for trial. that just seems wrong to me. >> so, joe, actually it went on for about eight minutes where she just asked each person

there, have you ever taken -- and one guy said no, we just haven't had to. take them to trial. >> it is unbelievable, mika, that if a teenage kid went into a stop 'n shop and lifted a loaf of bread and took it outside, they would be arrested. i'm dead serious. they would be arrested for shoplifting. and yet you have the largest banks on wall street engaging in the most reckless, irresponsible behavior, causing a meltdown not only of the banks but of the entire financial system costing americans billions and billions of dollars in retirement, destroying the lives in one fell swoop on september 15th, 2008. >> and what's changed? >> doing things clearly illegal. nothing's changed in washington. too big to fail has gotten even bigger. and as elizabeth says, too big to fail is too big to try.

why hasn't the federal government, ed rendell, tried any of these people? why haven't they arrested them? why haven't they tried them? why haven't they put one person in jail for a decade of greed and reckless behavior, and i believe illegal behavior, that destroyed our economy for a while? >> ed. >> there's no question, i think -- >> i'm asking, why haven't they? >> i think it's because the banks have pervasive influence in washington with both political parties. and you juxtaposed this, squjoeo savings and loans where people were tried and actually went to prison and served significant sentences. there's no excuse for it, none. >> what comes out of that hearing is that we will have more problems. and we'll have to -- we'll show more later. but nobody had an answer. she went on and on and on and said, anyone? can anyone tell me anything you've actually done to punish, to hold perhaps one bank up as

an example of what not to do, which is what you do in the -- i mean, that's why we have a system. >> and we got a settlement -- >> but nothing changed. >> and for these banks to pay that type of settlement -- >> so what? >> -- that's paying $50. >> you've got to ask yourself, do you want this to be in the legal system? do you want to see it as a criminal issue? rather do you want to see it as a regulatory issue? you've got large institutions that compete not just domestically but globally. at the end of the day, do you care about a senior person at a financial institution quote, unquote, going to jail? or do you care about getting it right? it just seems to me it's not obvious, that legal recourse, prosecution, criminal conduct is what's going to fix or improve the american financial or banking system. >> i would disagree with that. and the reason i would disagree with it is fines to the s.e.c. system or whatever, fines are the cost of doing business for these guys. >> that's what we've learned. >> the only thing that deters is

the perp walk, going to jail, going to prison, and it has to be done. >> yeah. yeah. joe? >> and willie, you know, it's the deterrent that i'm concerned about. >> no question. >> it's what happens next. the banks are getting bigger and bigger. after 2008. and you know what the message is to the people running those banks? i can take reckless risks. i can gamble with other people's money. and if it goes badly, guess what? i just check out. i move to the caymans, and the federal government comes in and bails out the bank because they're too big to fail, and i won't go to jail. people on wall street need to be scared by what happened to others who behaved badly, gambled recklessly with other people's money, broke the law. they should have been sent to jail. that would have sent a strong message to people on wall street today. but that message has not been sent. in fact, the opposite message has been sent. you can get away with murder. >> it's the only real deterrence

there is. >> and the payment of fines, richard, is not something that's going to detear a major wall street firm. >> richard is shaking his head. >> i disagree. you ought to have regulation. you ought to have rules. if you don't think it's good enough, then you tighten them. at the end of the day, you want people to take risks in bank. you want to have clear guidelines in risk and you shouldn't be able to do certain types of trading, whatever it is you want to do. we need to have large successful institutions that are willing to take responsible risk. now, there might be mistakes in judgment. there might be things that are incredibly unwise financially. i don't think that ought to be penalized, if you will, through the criminal system. that's why we have a financial system. in some cases, by the way, we ought to let these institutions fail. that's fair enough. >> we haven't. >> the weakness of richard's argument, it wasn't just -- of course we want to encourage to some degree of risk taking, but these guys said to themselves in

e-mails, this is a pile of -- what was the word they used -- remember there was an e-mail from one guy in one of the banks to another, we're selling a pile of crap. and they knew they were. >> yeah. >> they knew they were endangering people. >> in those cases when they misrepresents bundles of mortgages, yes. if they misrepresented -- fine. that's fine. if you think the banks are too big, then you make them smaller. you've got to be discriminating. but i don't think ultimately at the end of the day there's a criminal answer to this. >> but the banks haven't been made smaller. >> that's a legitimate public policy question. >> we see the hearing yesterday and you see the answers or the lack thereof that these regulators have, it is stunning, absolutely stunning that we sit here at this point today after all we've been through. we're going to show more later. >> and andrea, on a personal level for senator warren, i mean, you watch her, that was her first banking committee hearing, that is why she was sent to washington. she rode in on a wave of consumer advocacy and to stand up to the banks, and she started that mission yesterday.

>> it's very interesting because senator warren has not agreed to national interviews. she's not stopped in the hallway and talked to reporters. she has been trying to do really what hillary clinton did when she was elected after 2000 to the senate, to try to become not just a star because she was so well known, warren was, as hillary was, but to try to work in the system of the senate, unlike some other of the freshmen. and this was her moment because this is what she knows best. this is why she was elected. and that's where she punched through. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," congressman charlie rangel who today is introducing a bill that would reinstate the draft. also, lieutenant governor of california, gavin newsom. moderator of "meet the press," david gregory and eugene robinson. up next, mike allen with the "politico playbook." first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> an interesting forecast for the east coast. i've been talking all week about the potential for a storm with snow. looks like we'll see some of

that snow. the worst commute early this morning. rain has been moving out of south florida. looks like miami beginning to clear out. from cape coral to palm bay, you may see a few showers around melbourne, too. the other story, the cold air returning to the plains. windchills in the negative numbers in minnesota heading for iowa, illinois, temperatures dropping as winter returns. that cold blast of air heads down into the southeast. we're going to see a storm developing especially as we go through saturday morning right off the coast of north carolina. it's going to head northwards and develop. it looks like enough moisture will be around for light snow on the east coast. i'm thinking even some areas even in south carolina may change over to snow. no accumulations, but watch out, north carolina, virginia, maryland. you could even possibly get a slushy inch or two. up in new england, we're talking about a couple inches of snow. maybe even enough that you'll have to plow in new hampshire and especially in maine, maybe four to six. looks like southern new england, a nuisance storm compared to last weekend. mostly around two to four inches. heading out this morning on your

commute, just much colder in the northern plains. and we'll watch the east coast for saturday. washington, d.c., you're one of those areas that's going to be near mid-50s today. but i think you'll see snowflakes as we go throughout saturday afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ dad ] find it?

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[ sirens blaring ] 24 past the hour. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." an object being described as a meteorite in "the new york times" appears to have crash landed in russia. 900 miles east of moscow. okay. numerous videos posted on youtube show a smoke trail from

the object followed by a large bang. one video even appears to show the object itself streaking across the sky. by some estimates, as many as 400 people were injured. many from shattered glass. this morning russia's academy of sciences estimated the size of the meteor at ten tons. >> wow! "the wall street journal," olympic runner oscar pistorius was in a south african court this morning charged in the murder of his girlfriend. pistorius wept as he was charged. prosecutors will pursue premeditated murder charges against the track star. model reeva steenkamp was found shot to death thursday morning at pistorius' home in a gated community. he became a national hero in south africa for his performance in this summer's london games where he was the first-ever double amputee to compete. the "usa today," in order to keep up with quotas, more immigrants convicted of only minor crimes were deported from

the country last year. the paper says the obama administration has tried to emphasize removing dangerous criminals, not minor offenders. but critics say this policy shows they are now including people with offenses like minor traffic violations to make their numbers. and on the cover of this week's "parade" magazine, the secrets to having a happy family. check that out. >> i like it. >> with us now, the chief white house correspondent for "politico," mike allen with a look at the "playbook." hi, mike. >> and happy friday. >> there it is. happy friday. yesterday at this time we were talking about elizabeth warren keeping a low profile. this morning you go to the other end of the spectrum for freshmen senators looking at ted cruz of texas and how he hit the halls of capitol hill running. >> that's right, willie. and ted cruz of texas has taken the exact opposite approach that andrea mitchell was just describing for senator warren. ted cruz has been slapped down by other senior republicans at the senate armed services committee hearing where they

were vetting chuck hagel. he used video clips which you don't normally do. senators tell us that behind the scenes where freshmen are usually quiet, seen, not heard, senator cruz goes on and on in a prosecutorial length, stunned his colleagues by being one of just three senators to vote against at the moment one of their colleagues, senator kerry, for secretary of state. "politico" asked senator cruz about his approach. and he said that he had come here to fight for the people of texas, the people who had elected him, and he said comity, c-o-m-i-t-y, getting along in the senate is fine, it doesn't let you stop going toughly after nominees. ted cruz is a symbol of this amazing change in american politics that texas, as we've talked about on the show, getting increasingly purple,

could eventually be a blue state. and yet ted cruz, much, much more conservative than that state, other republicans worried about being primaried by the vocal, muscular conservatives. so jonathan martin also writing this morning that senator john cornyn, the senior senator from texas, worried about being primaried, unlikely to break with cruz. so the joke is that senator ted cruz is the only freshman senator who gets two votes. >> hey, you know, ed rendell, i hate to sound like a grizzled old veteran, but payback in the united states senate is hell. >> absolutely. >> and wait till ted cruz needs something. and all of those toes that he's stepped on are going to kick him back in the face. you know, he's come to town --

there's a reason why senators that come to town keep their head down, or at least figure out how to work with others and don't go on and on and on. you know who's learning that right now? chuck hagel. >> chuck hagel. >> i support hagel, but, you know, hagel, a lot of times, was a real tough guy to deal with in the united states senate. and he's getting paid back. but cruz is doing this hitting the ground running. wait till he needs something for texas. and if he's putting a hold and he's excited by that power, there are 99 other senators that could put a hold on anything that he wants. he's in a small boat. he just doesn't realize it yet. >> sure. and the effectiveness of the opposite approach, as andrea pointed out, is evident by what hillary clinton did in the senate. if hillary clinton had come in and said i'm a big deal, i'm a former first lady, get out of my way, she would have been much less effective for new york and for the nation than she turned out to be. she turned out to be a great senator because she understood

that. >> mike, i want to get to one other topic you're writing about today. looks like cory booker, newark mayor, has a clear path to the democratic nomination to senate in new jersey because yesterday senator frank lautenberg announced that he will not seek re-election in 2014. this obviously comes after a long back-and-forth where cory booker put himself out there. lautenberg's people leaked to you a few times that they were not pleased with the way booker was handling that. and now lautenberg makes it official. >> he does, willie. and certainly it's a clearer path for cory booker. he's way ahead in polls. not necessarily a totally clear path, represent eed frank pallo. $3 million in the bank. there will be a primary, but certainly cory booker starts as the big favorite. and this was quite a drama because it's been pretty obvious for a while that senator lautenberg wasn't going to seek a sixth term. but he didn't want to be pushed. and we've seen here on "morning

joe" how he fought back against cory booker, taking little digs at cory booker. cory booker certainly won't have access to the amazing machine that senator lautenberg has after 30 years leading the garden state. >> senator lautenberg is 89 years old. he may not have stayed on anyway, but he certainly wasn't going to do it on his own terms and wasn't going to be nudged out by mayor booker. >> yeah, this was a little bit awkward, to say the least. cory booker could have waited. it was very clear that frank lautenberg was not going to run again. but the way he did it did create some resentment. frank pallone has the machine, but cory booker has energy and momentum in this race. >> chris christie, prohibitive favorite as republican for governor, cory booker as a democrat. the state has a lot of room for personality. >> i think mike and andrea are both right, a clearer path.

>> one thing we should say, frank lautenberg deserves a lot of credit for what he did. one of the richest men in america going to the senate, spending most of his time trying to help the poorest people in america. >> first elected in 1982 in new jersey. >> sensational guy. mike allen with a look at the "playbo "playbook." thanks so much. next, newly acquired yankee -- still weird to say this -- kevin youkilis as a yankee, hasn't even taken his first swing, already a little controversy. youk tells the media his heart belongs in boston. >> oh, boy. that's a problem. how do you keep an older car running like new? you ask a ford customer. when they tell you that you need your oil changed you got to bring it in. if your tires need to be rotated,

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6:36 here in new york. welcome back to "morning joe." turning to a little sports now. michael jordan, the great michael jordan, was asked on monday if he were starting a team, wee start with kobe bryant or lebron james? he said he wants kobe bryant because of those five championships. as lebron only has one for now. that caused a little of a stir and maybe motivated lebron last night. in oklahoma city, a rematch of last year's nba finals. thunder trying to prove they can

beat lebron and the heat. they did nothing of the sort last night. didn't start well for durant. doesn't get the call. draws a technical for pounding the floor. later in the first, scary moment for durant and the thunder. he goes for the rebound, falls and slams his shoulder. they don't want to see that. he did stay down but refused to leave the game and scored 40 points. i guess he's okay. fourth quarter, lebron looking to keep his record going of scoring over 30 points. with a field goal percentage of 60% or higher. he sinks the deep three, gives the heat a 15-point lead. later in the quarter he elevates, throws down the alley-oop. heat win. lebron with another big night, he shot 39 but shot a mere 58%. his historic streak is over, but the heat are cruising and lebron playing out of his mind. kevin youkilis not endearing himself to his fan base. he played for the red sox for eight years. he showed up for his first day

of spring training with the yankees and told reporters, quote, i will always be a red sock. to negate all the years i played for the sox and all the tradition, you look at all the stuff i have piled up at my house and to say i'd just throw it out the window, it's not true. joe, it was a little couched. he went on to say what an honor it is to play there, et cetera, et cetera. but your first line with the yankees probably should not be i'll always be a red -- it's like going to your first bloods meeting and saying i'll always be a crip. >> i'm a crip, man. >> through and through. >> that said, willie, you've got to respect youkilis for saying that. and i'm sure some of the yankee fans will boo him until he goes 3 for 4 in an important game. >> yeah. he said, you know, that's a big part of my life. i'm not going to turn my back on it was more the point of saying screw the yankees. >> replacing a-rod's production?

i must have missed that. >> what production is that exactly? >> i can tell you i'm a white sox plan, and youkilis played the last half of the season with the white sox. when they played the red soxed, he produced. no ifs, ands or buts about it. >> he can say what he says about boston, and as a boston fan, i'm glad to hear that, but make no mistake. of all the teams he's going to play next year, the team he wants to play the best against, the team that traded him, the boston red sox. >> and not that the new york tabloids would ever make a big deal of such a thing. the back page of "the post" this morning says, "red blooded." youkilis bleeds for the red sox. enough of that. more of the red sox now. team president larry lucchino has conceded fenway's streak of consecutive sellouts is in jeopardy. ticket sales for the 2013 season are down. lucchino predicts the streak which currently stands at a record 793 games.

not that's amazing. will end in early april. it's been nearly ten years since the red sox have failed to sell out a game at fenway. the last nonsellout, may 14th, 2003, against the rangers. >> have they raced prices, or not, the red sox? >> i don't know if they've raised prices or not. >> falling performance. >> more about the performance of the team. i don't know what this is. let's roll the video. this comes from australia, i'm told. a galloping mob of kangaroos caused a delay during the -- wow, that is a mob -- during the first round of play at the women's open australian golf tournament. the delay lasted several minutes. a kangaroo delay. how do you put that in the box score? >> you don't have a box score in golf, willie. it's called the scorecard. >> you know what i meant. a kangaroo delay. coming up next, texas governor rick perry sparks an interesting feud after he tries to steal jobs away from california. we're going to discuss it next with lieutenant governor of california, gavin newsom. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. joining us now, california's lieutenant governor, gavin newsom, co-author of the new book, "citizenville." the concept's amazing. i'm going to read a portion of it here. and we'll go from there. we don't just have the resources in government to get the numbers and quality of tech employees we need. in fact, tech is usually the first place that funding gets cut. >> yeah. >> when you're looking for programs to trim to saltz tisfy

shrinking budget, what goes first? police? firefighters? of course not. you cut costs that no one will protest. and every year the first place that gets whacked is i.t. >> yeah. >> you look at a lot of different corners of the i.t. revolution, or however you want to describe it. >> yep. >> have some really fascinating conversations. >> i'm living out there in the bay area. >> i bet you are. >> and the mayor of san francisco and this small company and a couple young guys knock on the door of my office. something called twitter. >> yeah, that. >> now ubiquitous in our lives. tom friedman had a great line he said a couple years ago. 2005, facebook didn't exist. twitter was a sound. the cloud was in the sky. 4g was a parking space. linkedin was a prison. apps were things you filled out to get into new york university, and skype for most of us was a typo. and tom's right, it sums up the world we're living in. those things didn't exist. they're ubiquitous in our lives. technology is changing the game. this dimg tal revolution is alive in almost every sector of society but not yet government. and governor, you understand

this intimately. we still have this top-down hierarchical structure, and it's no longer increasingly relevant to the world everyone else is living in. so that's what the book begins to address. >> how do you harness -- >> exactly. >> -- how do you harness this incredible resource we have which is this new technology? because to some people it's about posting family photos and sending snarky tweets to each other. how do you use that for good? >> it's about a two-way conversation. i'm convinced of this, as a businessperson, i have about 1,000 employees in 15 businesses. we used to have one-way broadcast conversations. here's our product, take it or leave it. those days are over. it's a two-way conversation. it's the age of you. it's about customization, not standardization. and so that is a fundamental precept in terms of government reform. we've got to have that feedback loop. listening to the show this morning, it's distressing. frankly, i'm sick and tired of all these folks. i'm not -- >> but were you on the cruise, too? >> no, i wish i was. in some ways isolated from all of this in the hagel hearings and everything else.

the whole idea that the guy or gal on the white horse to come save the day, i'm not so convinced of that anymore. i'm not subscribing to that. i have a chapter called "armies of davids." it's about self-organizing communities, the same skrupt that got president obama elected in 2008. those 35,000 self-organizing communities. it's about the ability for technology to democratize voices, amplify voices, allow people to solve problems themselves and not wait around for a senate hearing or cloture or all this nonsense we're hearing day in and day out. >> joe's got a question for you. joe. >> hey, gavin. we teased, obviously, what rick perry's doing in texas coming to your state, advertising, saying hey, it's hard to get a business going in california, come to texas where the taxes are lower. tort reform's a bit tougher. and regulation's not as vexing. we talked about this yesterday. we talk about it a good bit, how to be competitive again. you look at where auto plants are going. detroit's in trouble, but

toyota's in kentucky. ford's in kentucky. nissan, tennessee, bmw, south carolina, mercedes, alabama, volkswagen, tennessee. airbus coming to alabama, south carolina. how does the northeast -- how does california, outside the tech industry, get more competitive if taxes are higher, if regulations are tougher, if sto tort reform's a bit more liberal in those states than the southeast? >> they can't and they don't unless we get aggressive and lean in. a couple thoughts on rick perry. first i admire his aggressiveness. he comes out on what he calls hunting trips on california casing our joint trying to make a case for his state. i appreciate that and governor rendell understands this. you've got to be aggressive. you've got to lean in. perry is hardly the only governor that does this. what's lost in a lot of these stories is perry and other governors have left behind something much more important than their own time in state, and that is they have chamber of commerces that are working 24/7 to try to bleed jobs out of the

state of california. so there's a lesson to be learned with that. california needs to be aggressive again. we cannot rest on our laurels. we can't just sit back and claim status as the ninth largest economy in the world, and that's good enough. go west, young man. go west. and so we have to have a stronger economic development framework. we've got to make sure that we pick up on all the extraordinary attributes and assets of a state that still has more scientists, more engineers, more researchers, morneau bell laureates, more patents emanating than any other state in the nation. start building off that and reconcile these cost problems which are legit. our taxes are high. they're not competitive in this environment. we had to raise them because of the acuity of an economic crisis. we now have an operating balance budget for the first time in a decade. california's beginning to click back. do not count us out. >> right. you know, though, gavin, though, you have always been straightforward and i've always respected you a great deal. you're a progressive politician, but you understand what it takes to bring small businesses to

california. you've been concerned about high tax rates in california for a long time. >> yeah. >> and you're exactly right. whether it's rick perry who we've made a lot of fun of over the past year. you talk about rick scott. they are obsessed with bringing jobs back to their states. and it worked. what does california do? what does new york do? what does connecticut do? what do these states do that have this high tax burden and also have a lot of debt to pay off? how do they balance that with staying competitive for the next decade? >> well, the most important thing these states do is what california and new york, to degree have done, and that's deal with solvency. there's nothing more uncertain as a businessperson, and as i noted i am one, than what's happening in sacramento or albany as it relates to the uncertainty of their budget climate and the prospect that they'll be changing the tax code or changing the regulatory climate to address changing conditions. so some stability is the most important thing.

second, you've got to acknowledge the problem. and you've got to own up to it. and you've got to look at your competitors. you've got to look at the playing field and be competitive in that respect. we have to reform our tax code in california. not just in this country but in the state of california. it's not just income taxes. it's capital gains taxes. it's corporate taxes. it's certainly sales taxes now are among the highest in the nation. our property taxes, however, are relatively low, which is a good place to start in terms of encouraging manufacturing back to the state. we are progressive in energy policies which are the envy of the nation. but that comes sometimes with offsetting energy, increase in costs. we have to look at that balance sheet. we've got to be aggressive. >> andrea mitchell in washington, jump in. >> thanks. lieu tenant governor, one of the jewels in california's crown was always the university system. and during all of those years of budget deficits, it really got decimated by some accounts, and there was a huge brain drain. are you able to restore that now, or is that still a vulnerability in terms of the technological advantage that you

have, of course, with silicon vall valley? >> six of the top performing universities on the planet are in california. the uc system is the envy arguably of public education in the world. i serve on that board. we've doubled tuition since 2007, tripled it since 2001. and we put a lot of sand in that conveyor belt for talent. we are finally stabilized. this new budget actually enhances the new balance budget, enhances the funding to the uc and c 167su system, and we're looking at a stabilization plan to start reinvesting in that engine of opportunity and growth in california. >> all right. the book is "citizenville: how to take the town square digital and reinvent government." lieutenant governor gavin newsom, thank you very much. great to see you. >> good to see you. thanks for having me. coming up, congressman charlie rangel wants all americans to pay attention to the military struggles, and his solution, pretty simple, bring back the draft. we'll ask him about that just ahead on "morning joe." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso.

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the cupholder defines american culture. we can't hold the cup. where is the cupholder in this car? this is insane! we don't want to grip things. hands free. everyone's looking for hands free. whenever i go on amazon, i always set that one-click

ordering, right? one click. that's it. you need me to click twice, i don't even want it anymore. i'm not clicking. get some wheels on the luggage. get me a belt clip for my cell phone. get me an earpiece and not one that you take in and out. drill it right into the side of my skull. >> all right. the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." richard haass and ed rendell are still with us. and joining the table here in new york, aol co-founder and chairman and ceo of the venture capital firm revolution. steve case, good to have you back. in washington, we also have pulitzer prize-winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. good to see you. we've got a lot to talk about. leading republicans revealing it's fairly personal as to why they are going to put off chuck hagel's nomination. so we don't have a secretary of

defense because it's personal. we'll talk about that. seems a little silly. elizabeth warren eviscerating banking regulators on capitol hill by just simply asking a few simple questions. we'll show that as well. it's fascinating. but first, you wanted to point out, front page of "the new york times," vows of change in china belie private warning, richard haass. >> the new leader of china, and what he's essentially saying is we're not going to go the way of the old soviet union. i'm not going to be gorbachev. all you people pressuring us to open up to reform, we're not going to go down that path. chinese leaders wake up every morning. they worry about internal disarray. they look at the size of their country. 1.3 billion people. the dialects, the ethnic range and so forth. and they say, we have got to keep a lid on. that's why you need a communist party. they don't take their country's future for granted. and it's just to me a warning. we in the united states are obviously pushing them. we're not going to get what we

want in terms of internal change. this is just the reality of china. it's an important educational piece about how chinese see their own country. >> check that out. we'll get to the headlines now, joe. elizabeth warren, i don't know if you saw this. i've got the longer version of it now. she seemed to settle in quite comfortably during her debut yesterday on the senate banking committee. the massachusetts democrat took the nation's bank regulators to task. >> wow, she did. >> with a direct and simple question, which it was simple, but there was no answer. take a look. >> tell me a little bit about the last few times you've taken the biggest financial institutions on wall street all the way to a trial. anybody? >> we've actually had a fair number of consent orders. we do not have to bring people to trial --

>> well, i appreciate you say you don't have to bring them to trial. my question is when did you bring them to trial? >> we have not had to do it as a practical matter to achieve our supervisory goals. >> can you identify when you last took the wall street banks to trial? >> i will have to get back to you with the specific information. >> anyone else want to tell me about the last time you took a wall street bank to trial? you know, i just want to note on this, there are district attorneys and u.s. attorneys who are out there every day squeezing ordinary citizens on sometimes very thin grounds. and taking them to trial in order to make an example, as they put it. i'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big for trial. that just seems wrong to me. >> so beyond the obvious show that that was, joe, i just -- it seemed to me that these banking regulators had never gotten a

question like that before. ever. that's what it looked like to me. >> they were shocked. and i guess that's just not the type of question they usually get in these type of committees. but it's the type of questions they need to receive and they need to have an answer. i still want to know, here we are five years after the collapse of america's banking system which took down billions and billions of dollars of value in america's retirement system, from americans' 401(k)s. >> destroyed lives. >> destroyed lives, savaged our economy, and not a single person that was involved in that scandal of epic proportions was brought to justice. is serving time in jail right now because of it. on top of that, mika, these banks that were too big to fail in 2008 have now gotten bigger. you know what will happen? we've been saying is for five

years. what happens if citi goes under tomorrow? well, we bail them out. what happens if the other big banks on wall street go down tomorrow? we as americans bail them out. this is no way to run a banking system. >> and i think that -- >> and we've learned nothing from the past, and we've sent the wrong message to the bad actors on wall street. >> and i think it's why the message in the last presidential campaign about, you know, helping out the little guy or everyone getting a fair shot resonated because of situations like this. that went out of control and have only continued to do so. steve, would you agree? joe, go ahead. >> i want to ask really quickly to the table, why hasn't barack obama's justice department gone after banks, gone after bad actors? why didn't barack obama have the courage himself to keep elizabeth warren in to run the consumer department that he himself set up? >> i think he --

>> what is going on? where's the disconnect here? >> he knew she would not get confirmed. by the way, they still don't have a head of the consumer financial protection bureau. elizabeth warren went back home and found a new way to come back to washington to make a difference. and you saw that yesterday. but if you look at the bureau that she set up, that she was tasked to set up, you can look directly at the republicans as to why that bureau isn't functioning at this point and protecting the consumer. it's unbelievable. >> can i ask steve a couple questions? steve, welcome to the show. >> morning. >> first of all, what do you make of the dysfunction in washington, d.c.? you live there. you know washington very well. you've got to scratch your head every morning going, god, if i had to run my business this way, we would have gone bankrupt in a week. >> well, that's true. i've lived in washington for almost 30 years, and it's been frustrating to watch. there's occasionally moments, glimmers of hope. last year republicans and democrats came together on this jump starting our business start-ups act for entrepreneurs, access to capital, things like

funding and on ramp for ipos. 80% of the congress supported, the president signed that legislation. so occasionally things can get done, people can come together. but it is frustrating. hopefully now the area i've been focused most on is immigration. i think we need to win the global battle for talent. this nation was built not just by the patriots who created the democracy but also the entrepreneurs who created the economy. that's why we're the leading economy in the world, and a lot of those were immigrant. 40% of fortune 500 companies were first or second-generation immigrants. about half the silicon valley companies are funded by immigrants. we need to win that battle. that's hopefully where there's common ground not just around high school immigration but i think there's building support, bipartisan support, for comprehensive immigration reform. i think that can happen in the next few months if people come together. >> steve, if you could do one thing that would enhance american competitiveness either within the immigration world or somewhere else, what would you do? >> number one is entrepreneurship. data says that 40 million new jobs created in the last decade by young high-growth companies.

it's not the big businesses or the main street small businesses, it's the young, fast-growing businesses. and that access to capital is part of that which is why that jobs act last year was important. this week the start-up act, 3.0, was introduced in the senate with bipartisan support. dealt with high-skiled immigration, investment incentives, no capital gains. if you invest in a start-up and hold it for over five years, have a long-term-hold perspective, done some things around commercialization of research, things around regulation, start-up act 3.0 was important. if we do one thing this year, it's immigration. we've got to win this battle for talent. other countries are really stepping up their game. australia gives out the same number of green cards as the united states, and we have 14 times more people. canada just announced a couple months ago that they were going to be going to silicon valley with a canadian flag and encouraging companies to move, make it really easy for them to get visas. other countries are figuring out that end partrepreneurship power economy and we need to get aggressive and double down on our entrepreneurs.

>> you can't teach it. how do you new tour it? >> i think you can teach it. wif the phenomenons we've seen in the last decade is the rise of the rest. people focused on globally how china and brazil and india are rising as nations. we're also seeing that regionally within the united states. it's not just about silicon valley. it's not just about new york. one of the hottest start-ups in the last decade is chobani yoe burt, upstate new york, four employees, now they have 1500 american workers and they're opening plants around the country. number one brand, billion dollars in sales. that was an immigrant entrepreneur who had an idea for a better product. this is what drives our economy, what powers our nation, and we need to not be complacent about that. entrepreneurs aren't just nice little golden retriever you should pelt every once in a while. they are fundamental to our economy, fundamental to staying powerful as a nation. and we sometimes forget that, particularly folks in d.c. >> steve is absolutely right. 16.7% of the new businesses

formed last year were formed by immigrants. but the key, steve, and i'd like to know how you think we can deal with this. everyone agrees on certain things. basically everyone agrees on the dream act. everyone agrees we should be given our green cards to college graduates and ph.d.s, et cetera. but the two big issues that are going to hold this up, i'm afraid, are how we define border security, because that's a big hang-up for the republicans in the senate and the house, how we get a metric that can define border security, and then secondly, what do we do with the path to citizenship for the 11, 12 -- >> i would agree. i wouldn't say everybody agrees. the vast majority agree on high-skilled, but you're right, the path to citizenship is a problem. not just the tech community, the business community is rallying not just for high-skilled immigration reform but comprehensive immigration reform. the reason is partly they think it's the right thing to do, and there are a lot of businesses, part of the business roundtable

with the meeting at the white house last week with the head of marriott and head of coca-cola, they really care about a broader immigration solution. but even the tech folks, the entrepreneurs who really are focused on high-skilled immigration now realize the only path to get that done is to embrace comprehensive reform. so there's a broad coalition now forming not just the tech world, the business community more broadly, the -- >> but are -- >> -- supporting a broader solution including a path to citizenship including the dream act. >> i think it's important they have input on those two issues because they'll be the hang-up. >> i absolutely agree. there's some areas of agreement, but we're not going to get that done unless we have a broader solution. exactly how you draw those lines in terms of what is the pass, how long it takes, there's a lot of subtleties that need to be worked through. i testified at the senate judiciary committee a couple days ago, and that was one of the areas of focus. i'm cautiously optimistic even in a broken d.c. that people are starting to come together. there is now bipartisan support for a comprehensive immigration reform, and we need to make sure there's a robust high-skilled

plan. start-up visas, stem visas, things like that. the start-up act introduced this week has that. "i" squared has that. it provides a framework around high-skilled immigration. now's the time to support comprehensive reform. >> eugene robinson, you write in today's "washington post" about the president in his bid to be remembered as a transformational leader, president obama is following the playbook of an ideological opposite, margaret thatcher. first you win the argument, she used to say, then you win the vote. obama is gradually winning the argument about what government can and should do. his state of the union address was an announcement of that fact -- and a warning to conservatives that, to remain relevant, they will have to move beyond the premise that government is always the problem and never the solution, gene. >> yeah. i think president obama has made the argument, over time, and is succeeding at it that the pendulum swung too far in the

small government slice, no government direction. there are things that we've neglected for years. we've neglected our infrastructure. we haven't taken care of our educational system the way we should. these are things that are going to retard the nation unless we do something about it. i think that's the argument that he's winning about government. there's a difference between limited government and no government. and to the extent that the republican party continues to argue, you know, to suffocate the federal government and make it incapable of doing these things that need to be done, i think the president's winning that argument. >> richard haass. >> there's also, gene, i don't know if you've seen it, there's some polling that suggests that groups like american hispanics and asian-americans are also more sympathetic to a larger role for government.

so this is also changing the politics of the size of government are evolving. it would be very hard to imagine a president now standing up and saying exactly what ronald reagan did and having it resonate in the same way, given the demographic evolution of america. >> we're also seeing the seniorization of politics. as more people live longer, guess what? they kind of are interested in some of the benefits with social security or health care or other kinds of things. so it is difficult to rein in some of that spending. we'll have to figure out a way to do that as part of some fiscal reform. but it's not just cutting spending. it's not just figuring out the tax side. it's also figuring out the growth side, and that's where innovation and end paren newership becomes critical. we've got to grow the economy more than 2% if we'll ever have a sustainable fix. >> we actually have to agree that we have problems on both sides when it comes to spending. there still seems to be a line of thought that we don't have a problem with the deficit and a problem with the long-term financial stability of our country. >> i don't think so.

i think among a small group of radicals on the left, you have people believing that you don't have to worry about the debt. they are marginalized. they really don't matter in the grand debate unless there are people on capitol hill like nancy pelosi that really seriously believe what they're saying. and on the right you have radicals and extremists who say we don't have to do anything. we don't have to invest in education. we don't have to invest in infrastructure or r&d. let's just cut, cut, cut. that doesn't work either. steve, i'm humored by both sides but especially we've been talking about paul krugman of late who said let's not worry about long-term debt. we don't have to worry about it. let's just grow the economy now, and we'll take care of that when we take care of it. do you think we should do two things at one time, that we should focus on the long-term debt but at the same time we should grow the economy in the shorrun? >> of course. of course. i think we have to do three things. we have to figure out a way to rein in spending and hopefully

there will be some consensus. it's hard. it's complicated. we do need to take a fresh look at reforming the tax code. there's all kinds of crazy aspects to it. and our corporate tax rates aren't really competitive globally. that's a place where it can generate revenue and add simplicity and probably fairness to it. so that's also important. but i think, as i said, the most important is to also focus on growth. if we can grow our economy more than 2%, the spreadsheets will start looking pretty good. if we don't double down on entrepreneurship, it may go down, not up, and we'll be in even a more difficult situation. so we have to recognize the reason we had the leading economy in the world, it's not an accident. it's because we've been the most entrepreneurial nation. and we need to take steps now as other nations figure that out to really double down on what has been the secret sauce powering our economy. so yes, we need to focus on spending. yes, we need to focus on tax reform simplification, revenues, but we also need to focus on growth, and the best place to focus is entrepreneurship which is access to capital is critical

and now immigration is critical. >> joe? >> richard haass, you've actually written a book about this talking about how we need to grow the economy. how we don't have to be as concerned, as i say all the time, our greatest fiscal threat are not short-term deficits. you know, next year, it's huge debts next decade. you've written a book about this. and talk about how it impacts our role in the world as we're talking right now about being more competitive. >> that's absolutely right. it's the debt, and particularly if and when interest rates rise, they're not going to get any lower. interest rates can only get higher. we're going to be eating increasingly our own seed corn. if we don't begin to reduce the growth of our debt, where's the money going to come for investment? how are we going to build our schools or improve our schools? how are we going to do the infrastructure? how will remain competitive? how among other things will we have the financial strength or foundations to field the modern military, to have foreign aid and all the rest? that's what's so worries me.

it's the short-termism of american politics right now. >> eugene robinson, you make the parallel here and end your piece by saying that president barack obama will shape the nation's future just as thatcher did. yet how does he answer all those questions that richard just put on the table? >> well, one of the questions is, what sort of horizon do you look at? do you try now to come up with some solution that fixes medicare for all time? or do you look at a 10-year, 15-year horizon and say, okay. if we can stabilize or perhaps, dare i say, even reduce the debt as a percentage of gdp over that period of time, then let's take another look at it in five more years or seven more years and see where we are and see what the pattern is, you know, how fast are medical costs rising?

have they stabilized at all? has the rate of increase come down? you know, because i think we're not going to get very far if we try to come up with a solution that, you know, actuarially makes medicare sound 50 years from now. i don't think -- i don't think we're that good at seeing in the future. 10, 15 years, yeah. >> joe? >> yeah, i just want to go back to steve. steve, when you make decisions running companies, you've got to do it not based on, you know, your personal prejudices. you have to base it upon the facts that are in front of you. i'm always struck, steve case, about how americans are so pragmatic, how they're not ideological, how they're always willing to shift and change. gene says that he believes barack obama's going to move us to a new place with possibly bigger government. there's a new pew research poll out. and a lot of people say that. that came out a month ago that

said 53% of americans saw the government as a threat, the size of big government as a threat to them. and that's the largest number since 1995. i don't bring that up for any other reason just to say that americans are always sort of ahead of washington, and they're pulling back and forth. and we just -- our politicians aren't practical enough and pragmatic enough in washington, d.c. what can they learn from ceos? what can they learn from the business sector in the art of making a deal? >> i think you're right and characterize it had right. people are frustrated at things that aren't getting done in washington. and really pocks on both houses because it's a big problem. i think the difficulty is unlike business, you make a decision as a ceo, you can move. in the case of washington, you really need to knit together this bipartisan coalition to get anything done. the president does not have as much power as people think. the senate majority leader does not have as much power as people think. the same is true in the house.

they have to work together in a bipart san way to get things done. and that's where the difficulties are. i actually was encouraged. part of the reason the fiscal cliff issue got resolved was in the house they lifted the so-called hassert rule, the majority of the majority. it did have a majority of the house that could carry that. i think we need to see that carry forward on issues like immigration so people in these safe districts are able to vote the way they need to so they don't get primaried but we still get the nation's business done. it's partly being pragmatic about the solution. i spent a lot of time with republicans and democrats on entrepreneurship and immigration. there actually is common ground on the solution. the path politically to get that done given how difficult things are, and the craziness of some of our system, redistricting and other things that create some perverse incentives to the people, even if they know what the right thing to do is, sometimes it's hard to knit together the bipartisan coalition to get it done. i think we can do that in the

next few months on things like immigration which has been a tough issue, an emotional, sensitive issue. i think people are coming together not just around high-skilled immigration but recognizing it needs to be a broader solution, but we'll see. i'm cautiously optimistic, but there's still a lot of work to be done. >> steve case, thank you so much. eugene robinson, your column is in today's "washington post." look for it. still ahead, congressman charlie rangel will be here. also, sam tanenhaus and joe c conason and joel bernstein. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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there's a lot of ill will towards senator hagel because when he was a republican, he

attacked president bush mercilessly. at one point said he was the worst president since herbert hoover, said that the surge was the worst blunder since the vietnam war, which is nonsense, and was very anti his own party and people. people don't forget that. you can disagree, but if you're disagreeable, then people don't forget that. >> oh, wow. joining us now, best-selling author and award-winning journalist carl bernstein. and in washington, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. david, i like that comment. when he was a republican. i didn't catch that last time. that was just snuck in there. >> it's all business -- it's all business down here. it's never personal. you know what i mean? >> yeah. >> that's the lesson here. the irony about it, if republicans want some of this leverage, i mean, why are they holding this up? you talk to republicans, as i

have, they want more information on benghazi. they want the e-mails about who changed the talking points. they want to find out exactly who the president called on 9/11, the night of the benghazi attack. if that's what they want and mccain is saying really it's just because people don't like him because he attacked president bush, then doesn't that undercut the argument about the seriousness of what they're looking at on benghazi? these are the games that are played down in washington. in the end i'm told talking to republican senators that he'll likely get through after a couple of weeks. they want to look at more of she these speeches and jam him up a little bit. the bigger concern in the white house is how effective he'll be as secretary of defense. during the time of budget austerity. when he's got to work with republicans on not just dealing with threats that the country faces right now, but dealing with how to cut back the pentagon's budget. >> so david, what else are you hearing from republicans? because i've heard that they say in the end, they think that hagel's going to pass.

but you have this spector of the secretary of defense nominee being held up for personal reasons, as john mccain just said. you've got brennan being held up by rand paul. he says he's going to place a hold on brennan at the cia. jack lew is undergoing questioning now and getting roughed up a bit. and right now his nomination may or may not be held up. what's the republican end game here? it's just not good for the national party brand. >> no, i don't think it is good, joe. and you've seen all this up close before. i think this is just a moment of leverage here. i mean, look. the president's got leverage on his domestic agenda right now. he's used his leverage after the election on taxes. you know, this is some leverage that republicans have to get some questions answered, to send some messages, to fire some shots across the bow. they're doing that. the white house is listening, by the way. it's mostly vice president biden who's talking to some of these more recalcitrant republicans and making sure they get what

they need so they can get some of this stuff behind them. issues like benghazi. you know, i don't think there's any real issue with lew. as you know on the brennan matter, i mean, rand paul is kind of off in his own silo, if you will. i don't think he's got a great deal of support, you know, in terms of holding up the brennan nomination, but that's more of an attack on right and left, whether it's leaks or the drone program. i just think this is a moment of republicans using what leverage they have but not wanting to go all the way to the mattresses. i don't think they want to do that on hagel. it's still a question of how strong hagel comes out when he's confirmed. >> joe, before i go to carl and let him chomp on this disagreeable comment, i do want to ask you about it because on a serious level, because isn't washington about an exchange of ideas, about sometimes disagreeing? and isn't there a problem with a leading republican saying if you don't fall in line on every

issue and if you disagree, you are not a republican? >> well, let me now defend john mccain a bit on that front. i disagree with him holding up chuck hagel for personal reasons, and i made that very clear off the top of the show. certainly with big defense cuts coming and with 66,000 troops in afghanistan. but this is the way the united states senate works. and it's the way the houseworked as well. if you had somebody on the house floor, and we saw this, going on the floor time and time again and rubbing people -- it's one thing to oppose a bill. >> right. >> it's one thing to oppose a war. it's one thing to oppose a surge. but chuck hagel seemed to relish in the great publicity he was getting by rubbing president bush's nose in it, by rubbing john mccain's nose in it, by rubbing his republican colleagues' nose in it. he was acting self-righteous and like he was the only holy man in washington, d.c. i'm not, again, defending what the republicans are doing today, but i think whether you talk to

carl or anybody else, this is the way washington works. i said it about ted cruz. ted cruz is going to learn a valuable lesson when he tries to get some things for his state. all the toes that he stepped on are going to turn around and kick him in the shin. so hagel, you know, hagel is paying for his conduct back in '07 and '08. not his positions. but the way he held it. and mika, i've got to be clear here, mika. you know i like chuck hagel a lot. and you like him a lot. >> i do. >> we've loved working with him at the atlantic council. i want him to be sec spadef. i'm just explaining for people in washington, and ed certainly knows this, payback is hell. and hagel's learning it just like ted cruz is going to learn it in the future. >> me thinks, though, carl bernstein is really funny that john mccain or lindsey graham would call someone disagreeable at times.

is that just me? >> i'll let you say that. i wrote the original cover story for "vanity fair" on john mccain in 1999. and part of the institutional history here is the john tower nomination, which is the other nominee for secretary of defense who was rejected by a partisan democratic witch hunt on grounds that john tower was a womanizer and drank too much. now, those might be somewhat accurate or might not be. but whatever the case, it was a very personal fight like this one. in this case, chuck hagel who we all know how smart he can be, how effective hean be, was awful. in his hearing. and he simply was not prepared. and it gave ammunition for yet another outrageous partisan dragging through the mud and also the question of israel once again making the republican argument that somehow israel is

really the likud party, bibi netanyahu, the so-called american jewish lobby is united behind netanyahu and likud when, in fact, israel is a country that's divided like we are, and you can support israel and be against netanyahu and try to have policies like obama is trying to fashion. it puts reality into the question of palestinians and israel. >> let me ask a question of david gregory. david mentioned the fact that the white house was unhappy with hagel's performance at the confirmation hearing. at some point -- and they're also worried about his ability to be an effective secretary of defense. david, do you think there's any chance that the white house at some point says this isn't going to work? we're going to cut our loss move on to plan "b"? >> i don't think so. not at this point. the president has stood by him very publicly on a number of occasions. this is a guy he wants. and let's be clear. if he thought that picking a republican would ease the way for him to make, you know,

cutbacks and bring troops home from war, it's very clear now that he got the wrong republican. because this guy seems more polarizing than most democrats. so the reality is i think the president wants him. he wants him for personal reasons, wants him for, you know, the history they have, more recent history, and also their world view and how he thinks hagel will represent him. no, i think he's willing to pursue this. and look, the signals they're getting from republicans are we're not going to block this guy. we're just going to jam you up a little bit. that's consistent with what i've heard from republicans as well. so i think they're making some splashes here. but that ultimately he gets confirmed. >> david gregory, thank you. who do you have on "meet the press" this sunday? >> dennis mcdonough, his first interview on "meet the press." new chief of staff. also mark kelly to talk about his reaction to the emotional state of the union speech on gun control. >> all right. david gregory, thanks very much. coming up -- yikes!

a meteorite strikes russia this morning, injuring hundreds of people. we're going to bring you the details next on "morning joe." ♪

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at 40 past the hour, a number of videos posted last night on youtube shows the trails of smoke from an object that's being described as a meteorite landing 900 miles east of moscow. check this out. at least one dash cam video appeared to catch the object streaking across the sky. let's turn to bill karins right now. what happened? >> this was amazing stuff, mika. you know, 400 people were injured from this. and they weren't really injured from actually hitting them. when this meteor struck the ground, it was like a radius went out from it. there's new pictures just coming out on youtube especially where people were at work and the windows just shattered. all the doors blow in and they

literally blow across the room. that's why there were 400 injuries. they're calling this the worst meteor impact on land areas in this world since 1908. that was out in siberia. that one just leveled trees for, like, miles. incredible stuff. especially when there was no advanced warning. we're lucky it didn't hit a city. it would have been just horrible. let's talk about your weekend forecast, take you through your holiday weekend. it's very cold. we're getting a return to old man winter-type conditions. minneapolis, windchills at minus seven down to ten in kansas city, seven in denver. so the cold air is back and it's heading for the eastern half of the country. we're still going to watch that ocean storm developing. it still looks to be a glancing blow. throughout the day saturday from south carolina, virginia, up through new england. and in new england, by the way, you're going to get a light coating of snow tonight and then another batch saturday evening into sunday night. i don't think it's going to be a big deal. the only exception is possibly through new hampshire and maine. otherwise we're only going to be looking at minor accumulations. maybe two to four inches at most, areas from boston down to new york city.

and that's, again, saturday afternoon, saturday evening. want to point out how beautiful some portions of the country are this weekend. from southern california through texas. we're really going to warm things up. and it's going to be nice and toasty. look at l.a. near80. saturday, 43, atlanta, and get warmer as the weekend continues. bottom line for this weekend, we're avoiding a big, huge storm like the one last week in new england. it's going to be just offshore. coming up next, congressman charlie rangel of new york joins us next. why he says the nation needs to reinstitute the draft. more "morning joe" when we come back. i'm a conservative investor.

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a live look at washington. joining us from capitol hill, democratic congressman from new york, charlie rangel. congressman, great to have you on the show. i don't disagree with you at all about reintroducing the draft. i think it would literally change everything about our foreign policy. tell us more about why you think this would be extremely important. >> well, the congress never gets the chance to vote up and down on these moral questions. every president just puts our kids in harm's way, and we just foot the bill. but there's no real sacrifice in what's going on. less than 1% of american families are involved in the military. and they really pay the price for it. and the congress sits back and just allows these things to happen. take my word for it. if every time a president was about to put our kids in harm's

way, we were thinking about our kids and our grandkids, it just wouldn't happen. and there's nothing wrong with universal public service. if this country has its security threat, i would like to believe that all of us, no matter how old we are, would want to do something. and in this case, it will be universal. if you can't fight, you can be involved in protecting our national economic and national defense interests. >> charlie, you want to talk about service and what it means to the youth of america. you certainly know about it because, of course, you served in our military honorably during the war. but i want to talk more about your view on the draft, in general. i know you've always talked about this and about 10, 11 years ago, it raised my eyebrows going, what's charlie up to? but you look back over the past decade, and you look at the mistakes that we've made in foreign policy, a lot of those mistakes would have been

corrected quickly. like for instance in iraq, we wouldn't have gotten out in 2011 or gotten out in 2004 once we found out there weren't wmds there and young americans were being drafted and all of us were involved in that fight. >> there's no question about it. you know, when you think about war and you're a member of congress, you're supposed to think about yourself and your constituents and large family. and if you're thinking about them coming home, losing limbs, losing their mental capacity and those heroes that have given up their lives, you take a deep breath and say, what is this war about? why are we going there? and to have them come home and the question is still unanswered, that's not the american way. and i truly believe that if a president can't convince the congress to support the draft, then he should not be bringing the question of war in front of the congress or the american people. >> richard haass, would you agree?

>> i think there's a strong case for national service. i think you'd actually get a lot of pushback from the military leadership against a draft. they don't necessarily need the manpower. and our history with the draft, and i'd be curious how the congressman reacts to this, is it's not the best way to recruit manpower for the military. it tends to be short term. a lot of people are reluctant there. there's something to be said for the all-volunteer army. every one of the military leaders, at least that i meet with, thinks the volunteer army is far preferable to going back to the draft. so i'd be curious why the congressman thinks otherwise. >> he's smiling. congressman? >> i'm smiling because if i was -- my son was a marine and they want people who don't want to be a marine, they don't want you. listen, the military takes what it can get. and when a country is prepared to put up its young people to defend this nation, it is not a handful of generals' decision as to who's going to make that sacrifice. sure, if they could pick and choose, they probably would get everyone out of the national

football league. but it's not their choice to make when americans are dying. >> george pataki and i have been talking about writing a piece together about just this, a need for about writing a piece together about just this. a need for national service, and a draft in which there would be a choice for young americans about where they would serve, whether it would be to help infrastructure in the military, but there must be a hinge of our history where he have gone in a different direction, is the abolition of the draft. and we've been in different countries since. any of us who have been to basic training knows what a -- in retrospect, what a great experience that is in terms of being with all kinds of other americans. it would revolutionize how we approach our problems and unite our country in terms of service and common purpose. >> charlie, i think what carl says is absolutely right. i love your idea, but let's make it a choice. when you're 18 years of age, you either go into the peace corps,

vista, or the military. serve your country. everyone does it before they go to college, we'd have more mature college kids and everyone in this country would have a sense of what it is to be an american, to serve the country. >> we've also got a lot of military bases that are doing nothing. and there's a way to perhaps integrate. i'd asked the congressman. is it possible we could integrate those facilities with a draft in which people do all kinds of services, that we wouldn't have to put these places out of work. >> congressman? >> if anyone wants to avoid the draft, all they have to do is enlist in the public service of their choice and they can avoid it. but if you just sit back and wait, then you take your chances and just hope that the congress and the country does the right thing. we shouldn't have to have a draft thinking about our kids being killed. we should have a draft to let every nation know that we're prepared for anything, but we're not just looking for oil in certain places and finding out what's popular with a handful of

people in this country that has more control than they should have in dictating when america goes to war and when we don't if and if you take a look at that segment of the united states that actually goes to war, they get unfair disadvantage in every darn thing that's happened. i know, because i was one of them. and it's unfortunate that in the last draft that we had, all you had to do was say that you're going to college, get into college, and you can avoid it. that's why my no-nonsense, everybody goes, it really counts. everybody makes a contribution. and like someone said, you can be proud of the contribution you've made. you may go in, screaming and yelling, but when you come out, you salute the flag. there you go. >> joe? >> charlie rangel, thanks so much for being with us. i think your idea is an idea whose time has come. and uhl tell you what, mika. even if we can't get public service for young americans. even if we can't get what

charlie's talking about, let's at the very least amend his bill and make sure that any time the president of the united states sends 10,000 or more americans off to war somewhere, the draft goes into effect at that point. i think that might actually be a nice little constraint against the commander in chief acting unilaterally. >> it would change the dynamic, for sure. congressman, thank you very much. >> and it would get americans invested in a war that presidents who often are able to start without a declaration of war. >> yeah. with people completely disconnected from it, most of us. >> yep. coming up, is social media poisoning the job market? "cosmo" editor in chief joanna coles explains why twitter and facebook are making it harder for young people to find work. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ indistinct shouting ]

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coming up next, senator john mccain says long-standing ill will is partly to blame for the gop's resistance to chuck hagel. but will it be enough to keep a qualified man from getting the job as secretary of defense? plus, senator elizabeth warren grills bank regulators over the financial crash, asking whether wall street firms are considered too big to prosecute. that's next on "morning joe." aw this is tragic man, investors just like you

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united states! ain't nothing better. >> we didn't have water, we didn't have showers for a while. we didn't have hot meals. >> it was literally like being in a floating port-a-potty. just human waste everywhere. >> they had a sign outside their cabin saying, "need medication." they basically ran out of their medication and their basic

needs. >> the crew on the boat, unbelievable. those guys had worse conditions than we did and they were serving us. >> what's the first thing you're going to do? >> chick-fil-a, i think. >> good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. it's time to wake up as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set, we have ed rendell and richard haas along with willie geist and me. and in washington, andrea mitchell. >> i've always had a thing about cruises. >> same here. we've talked about it. but i've got to say, i've got to say, here's the great news. >> please. yeah? >> the great news is that because of the problems with this cruise line, everything else, all other news in the world stopped. >> right. >> like if you looked at cnn yesterday afternoon, the killing in syria, it came to an end. >> it did. it was not --

>> yesterday on capitol hill, republicans and democrats hugged. the whole idea of an historic hold on the secretary of defense, they said, you know what, let's just put this to the side because of this cruise ship debacle. i mean, mika, all of the things we worry about -- the national debt clock stopped. >> well, basically, the world stopped. >> we don't have to worry -- right, paul krugman's right. we don't have to worry anymore because cnn tells us that this cruise ship was the only story that mattered yesterday for 24 hours. and you know what, makes me feel pretty good about the state of the world. >> and i'm glad they're home. >> i think that's very exciting for all of us. i'm very pleased. >> it's good to know when the world stops, to be told that. >> perspective can be reassuring. >> it's all relative, that's true. >> it's all relative. syria, come on! people are dying! middle east peace breaking up! that doesn't matter! the national debt -- chuck

hagel -- that doesn't matter! there's a cruise ship outside of mobile bay. let's get a helicopter on them. that was quite a move. >> wait a minute. one little problem. >> what'that? >> the world didn't actually stop. and other things are happening. and hagel's vote was delayed. it will be well over another week before the senate reconsiders the nomination of chuck hagel. >> really, this is the first time hearing of this! when did this happen?! did they make this decision on the cruise ship?! >> no, no, they didn't. it actually happened in washington. >> really? well, that's fascinating. >> like permanent port-a-potty. >> mika, why don't you catch us up with what actually happened yesterday in the news? >> republicans blocked a vote yesterday that would have ended the debate and allowed for a final decision one way or another. democrats fell just shy of the votes needed to advance the process. something president obama chalked up to partisan politics.

>> there is nothing in the constitution that says that somebody should get 60 votes. there are only a handful of instances in which there's been any kind of filibuster of anybody for a cabinet position in our history. and what seems to be happening, and this has been growing over time, is, the republican minority in the senate seemed to think that the rule now is that you have to have 60 votes for everything. well, that's not the rule. it's just unfortunate that this kind of politics intrudes at a time when i'm still presiding over a war in afghanistan and i need a secretary of defense who is coordinating with our allies to make sure that our troops are getting the kind of strategy and mission that they deserve. >> joe, senator john mccain offered a different -- and this is -- actually, i felt better after i heard this.

he offered a different rationale for the republican opposition. it's personal. it's one that dates back to the bush presidency. >> oh, okay. >> there's a lot of ill will towards senator hagel, because when he was a republican, he attacked president bush, mercilessly. at one point, said he was the worst president since herbert hoover. said that the surge was the worst blunder since the vietnam war, which is nonsense. and was very anti his own party and people. people don't forget that. you can disagree, but if you're disagreeable, then people don't forget that. >> you know, richard haas, for the 66,000 troops currently serving in afghanistan, and for their families, all across america this morning, i'm sure they're glad to know that we

don't have a secretary of defense in place and we're not going to because of a seven-year-old political grudge. forget about sequestration. forget about all the cuts. there are men and women on the ground in afghanistan today fighting and possibly dying for this country, and they don't have a secretary of defense running the pentagon, because of a six or seven-year-old grudge? really? is that how small we've become. and because this guy is disagreeable -- richard, it's sort of frightening, isn't it? >> i actually think, though, what john mccain said has the virtue of being true. chuck hagel has gotten under a lot of people's skins over the years, because he speaks out. then, often, he speaks out without being as careful, quote/unquote, as a lot of people in washington tend to be. so a lot of republicans have really resented him for a while. plus, i think his performance at his confirmation hearing took a

little bit of -- what's the word, the ballast out of those who were inclined to support him. plus you've got typical washington dysfunctionalty in the idea of holds and filibusters and all of that slowing down the workings of government. but i actually think john mccain -- >> but richard, you know, though, richard, we're hearing in the end, most likely, he's going to pass and be secretary of defense. so why hold him up over a recess when the pentagon desperately needs somebody at the helm? >> because, in a funny sort of way, joe, it's exactly what mccain said. it's a way of getting their pound of flesh. it's a way of sending a message to hagel. and it's just a way of almost acting out the kind of rancor and the, if you -- just the dislike that is out there. >> you seem awfully calm about this. and resolved that this is just the way that washington works. does this not trouble you at all? >> of course it troubles me, but it's also just the way that

washington works. i think inspect end, chuck hagel will get the job. and as you say, this is not about defense policy. what is so extraordinary is we actually have major defense issues from sequestration to the pivot towards asia to what to do about syria, you name it. and none of this is part of it. and so it's -- you mentioned before the budget, what you're seeing hear on virtually every issue is the gap between the inside the beltway political debate and what ought to be the policy debate. that's the issue i really -- that's what makes me unhappy. chuck hagel will ultimately get through. he'll be weakened as a result of all of this. but he will get through and he will have an opportunity to do well or not to do well, as secretary of defense. i'm much more worried, if you will, about the state of our politics. >> willie? >> andrea mitchell in washington, we've heard now several different reasonss stan chuck hagel. now we hear about a personal

grudge from seven years ago with president bush. you've covered foreign policy in washington for a long time. can you put this into some kind of perspective historicly? how rare is it for this to happen to a president's nominee? >> well, this is very rare. i mean, it's unprecedented. i covered the john howard nomination. he was the former chairman of the armed services committee, and that was also something that john mccain brought up yesterday. that's part of the grudge match. he wasn't filibustered because the administration just lost that one. but this filibuster with a recess permits the opposition to keep upping the ante. one of the things that you and joe are pointing out here is that every time chuck hagel turns a corner, they're throwing something else up there. benghazi wasn't even on his watch. they used it to try to get leverage, to try to get more information about what the president did on that night, did he go to bed, was he calling the pentagon who was in charge. they did get a letter from the

white house lawyer yesterday, who responded at least to that question, but it's benghazi, it's ted cruz raising the speeches and throwing out suggestions, completely unsupported by fact, what if you took money from north korea. what if you took money from iran? none of that happened, but it was out there to the point where john mccain came to his defense. so as this keeps going, there's a drip, drip, drip. they'll keep finding another speech that they can take and my concern, i think from the administration's perspective, also, is that you're not going to get a final vote, because they'll keep bringing up some other thing. and this thing he keeps getting weaker over the recess. >> okay. we've got other news to cover, joe. the nra is back in the news. wayne lapierre called the president a hypocrite. but i'll hold off on that one. because i want to get to elizabeth warren. i don't know if you guys saw this. did you see this? >> yeah. >> i don't know if it's just me -- >> mika, was she on the cruise

ship? >> no, but the banking -- >> because if she did anything yesterday, i certainly wouldn't have seen it unless she was on the cruise ship. if i were watching cnn. she had to be -- >> let's put it this way. the banking regulators that she was grilling actually wished they were on that cruise ship. and on it for ten more days. >> really? >> yes, after she was done with them. >> wow, i guess i should have switched channels. >> did you see this, joe? >> let's see what happened yesterday. >> this is senator elizabeth warren, pretty comfortable during her debut yesterday on the senate banking committee. she just had a few questions for the nation's bank regulators, direct questions that they just -- they couldn't answer. take a look. >> can you identify when you last took the wall street banks to trial? >> i will have to get back to you with the specific information. >> anyone else want to tell me about the last time you took a wall street bank to trial?

you know, i just want to note on this, there are district attorneys and u.s. attorneys who are out there every day squeezing ordinary citizens, on sometimes very thin grounds, and taking them to trial in order to make an example, as they put it. i'm really concerned that too big to fail has become too big for trial. that just seems wrong to me. >> so, joe, they actually went on for about eight minutes, where she just asked each person there, have you ever taken the -- and one guy said, no, we just haven't had to take them to trial. >> yeah, it is unbelievable, mika, that if a teenage kid went into a stop 'n' shop and lifted a piece of bread, took it outside, they would be arrested. i'm serious, they would be arrested for shoplifting. and yet you have the largest banks on wall street, engaging

in the most reckless, irresponsible behavior, causing a meltdown not only of the banks, but of the entire financial system, costing americans billions and billions of dollars in retirement, destroying lives in one fell swoop on september 15 sth, 2008. >> and what's changed? >> doing things clearly illegal. nothing's changed in washington. too big to fail has gotten even bigger. and as elizabeth says, too big to fail is too big to try. why hasn't the federal government, ed rendell, tried any of these people? why haven't they arrested them? why haven't they tried them? why haven't they put one person in jail for a decade of greed and reckless behavior? and i believe illegal behavior, that destroyed our economy for a while. >> ed? >> there's no question, i think -- >> i'm asking, why haven't they?! >> well, i think it's because the banks have pervasive

influence in washington, with both political parties. and you juxtapose this, joe, to the savings and loan, where people were tried and actually went to prison and served significant sentences. there's no excuse for it. none. >> i mean, what comes out of that hearing is that we will have more problems and we'll have to -- we'll show more later, but nobody had an answer. she went on and on and on. and said, anyone? can anyone tell me anything you've actually done to punish, to hold, perhaps, one bank up as an example of what not to do? which is what you do in the legal -- which is why we have the system. >> they'll probably say we went after and got a settlement from goldman and got a settlement from -- >> but nothing changed. >> and for these banks to pay this kind of settlement is like us paying $50. >> yeah. >> and you have to ask yourself, do you want this in the legal system? do you want to see it as a criminal issue or as a regulatory issue? you have these large

institutions and at the end of the day, do you really care about this or that leader or senior person at a financial institution quote/unquote going to jail or do you care about getting it right. to me, it's not obvious that legal resource, prosecution, criminal conduct is what's going to fix or improve the american financial or banking system. >> see, i would disagree with that. the reason i would disagree with it is fines through s.e.c. system or whatever, fines are a cost of doing business for these guys. >> and that's what we've learned. >> the only thing that deters, the only thing that deters is the perp walk, going to jail, going to prison, and it has to be done. >> yeah. joe? >> and willie, it's the deterrent that i'm concerned about. >> no question. >> it's what happens next. the banks are getting bigger and bigger, after 2008. and you know what the message is to the people running those banks? i can take reckless risks. i can gamble with other people's money. and it goes badly, guess what?

i just check out. i move to the cayman's. and the federal government comes in and bails out the bank, because they're too big to fail, and i won't go to jail. i mean, people on wall street need to be scared by what happened to others who behaved with badly, gambled reckless with other people's money, broke the law. they should have been sent to jail. that would have sent a strong message to people on wall street today. but that message has not been sent. in fact, the opposite message has been sent. you can get away with murder. coming up on "morning joe," the new face of "cosmopolitan" magazine. editor and chief, joanna coles on the efforts of helping young women. and a special guest reviewer. you'll never guess who this was. the editor of "the new york times" book review, sam tanenhaus joins us along with editor of nationalmemo.com, joe conason. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> mika, the holiday weekend is just about here.

we are going to watch the potential for a little snow on the east coast, a few places haven't seen a lot this winter. may see a few flakes. i'm talking to you down there in the carolinas. let's talk about the setup right now. we have a little bit of rain down in florida and just cold air is invading the united states. if you're going to get snow, you need to get the cold air first. it's a very warm day today in the eastern seaboard. that cold air has moved down and it's on its way through the ohio valley. this is cold stuff. this is where we should be in february. international falls, they call it the icebox for a reason. minus 25, windchills this morning. so here's the weather pattern. the cold air only in the eastern half of the country, saturday into sunday. that east coast storm will be developing. it looks to be offshore. but there may be enough moisture available in that cold air to get us a little bit of snow for areas such as raleigh, richmond, back up to d.c., new york and new england. we're talking a coating, maybe an inch or two, 3 or 4 maybe up in new england. it's a warm day in the east, enjoy it. that's it. gets much colder into your saturday.

the west coast, by the way, will be beautiful as we go throughout your holiday weekend. just a few showers there in seattle. and by the time we get to sunday, that's when we'll be watching that east coast storm heading up through the canada maritimes. very blustery, very cold in boston and all of new england. a great day for skiing, though, up there. so washington, d.c., beautiful day on the mall today. mid-50s, loving it! but it's going to get much colder this weekend. chance of some snowflakes over your presidents day holiday weekend. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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22 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now on the set, editor of "the new york times"book review, sam tanenhaus. and this weekend's issue features books breaking new ground on the way we think about american presidents. on the cover is a trio of histories on eisenhower and nixen, calvin coolidge, and abraham lincoln. also joining us on set, editor of nationalmemo.com, joe conason. hi, joe, good to see you. ed's still with us. i love this! >> presidents day! >> that's it, they're all republicans. >> they're all republicans. >> yeah. so it gives you a sense of how the party began and the different directions it went in. you have, you know, the great moderates, eisenhower and nixon. you have calvin coolidge, who sort of reemerged as a hero of small government republicanism, and the giant of american history, abraham lincoln, who essentially created the republican -- >> that's the one book we haven't had either the author --

the author on yet. >> yes, john byrd, a professor of english at brandeis university. spent 26 years on this book. >> oh, my -- okay, we have to have him on! joe reviewed ike and dick, and it's really an incredible look at the relationship between the two men. and joe touches upon what sort of -- how one man was literally at sometimes almost obsessed with how the other viewed him and how that led to some problems, as well as to some solutions. >> well, it was a matchup of two entirely different sorts of people. you have the great american hero, eisenhower, the soldier of democracy. and the purely pragmatic political guy, richard nixon, who was essentially forced on eisenhower's ticket by party regulars. and eisenhower was wary of nixon, but also realized he had great political strengths.

nixon knew or learned eventually that eisenhower was actually an extraordinary political leader. each learned something from the other. and nixon never quite got out from eisenhower's shadow. there's a great moment in the 1968 republican convention when nixon, at last, you know, is going to be -- now, he'd run in 1960 and lost. here's his chance to win. and what does he say? let's win it for ike. can't get away from ike. >> how about what ike said about nixon in '68, when they asked him about, name one important decision that dick nixon had any input in, and he said, i'll have to get back to you. >> exactly! >> give me a week. >> that was actually 1960, when nixon had been vice president. >> '60, yeah. >> yeah, joe writes, ike and dick is a highly engrossing political narrative that skillfully takes the reader through the twisted development of a strange relationship that would help shape america's foreign and domestic agenda. >> who knew joe was such an

elegant book review peer. >> he loves reading history books about american presidents. this was a perfect match. >> and the biographer is a terrific writer. longtime editor at "the new yorker," at "the washington post," has written fiction about washington. it has a nice kind of inside feel, but also a grasp of history and sweeping narrative. terrific book. >> we had amity slays on yesterday on coolidge and his impact, and also, gosh, the really tragic personal stories that were a part of his life. >> yeah, and amity sclais has a great feel of where the republican party happens to be at any particular moment. and instead of just echoing what's being said, she'll look ahead a little bit. for instance, some remember, not long after president obama was elected to his first term, amity wrote a book about -- called "the forgotten man" about hoover and roosevelt and the new deal, that sort of pointed toward an alternative history of that politics. this is really what she's doing here. she's saying, there's an older

style of republican politics that the party may believe to recapture in some way. >> joe conason? >> well, it's astonishing to me that the republican party, which now is supposed to be remaking itself in a more modern mold, would look back to calvin coolidge, who is far to the right, really, in any sort of reasonable spectrum, of their ticket that just got crushed in november. so why coolidge now? what is appealing about him to a party that needs to become something else? >> well, you know, it's interesting you say that, joe. because coolidge also represents a much older kind of yankee america. s and this is really part of the republicans' problems. ed, you know this very well. just look at the demographics of the country in the last election. this is a party that cannot make a serious appeal to non-white males, who are now the shrinking base of america. coolidge is appealing because of

this kind of flinty frugality. there's a great phrase norman mahler had when he was covering the 1968 conventions, and he said, it's a kind of corporate lust and greed and frooiprivate frugality. that's kind of the dynamic that we've got now, where this kind of intoxication off and on the right, with free enterprise, which we all admire, but many of us think needs to be regulated in some way. and this idea that individuals are responsible for their own actions. and coolidge, who really didn't want to do very much as president, he didn't relish the office. he didn't relish the trappings of the office. it kind of looks like a standard-bearer for an earlier idea of smaller government, of restraint, letting the country go about its own business, without the huge specter of -- >> the famous line about -- >> what's amazing, when you look at lincoln and eisenhower, probably the two people who invested the most in building

the american infrastructure, lincoln with the transatlantic railway and eisenhower with the highway system, they were investors in our growth, and the republican party has gotten so far away from that. >> yeah, what are they right now? >> it's hard to define them. >> they're the party of coolidge, evidently. >> through yo go. >> that's something to look forward to. >> you're reading presidential history, are you reading one of these? "colonel roosevelt" i'm told. >> i will be reading jeff franks' book because i know he's great and it will be terrific. i've been reading about roosevelt in his post-presidency because i've been writing about clipton's post-presidency. "colonel roosevelt" is a great book. >> joe, what are some of the other models for post-presidencies? >> john quincy adams, i would say. >> went back to congress. >> went back to congress and became sort of ooh leader of the abolitionist movement. one of the greatest leaders. jimmy carter -- >> yes! thank you!

>> when president clinton was leaving office, he and carter, who did not always get along, as i think everybody knows, had some long discussions about how clinton could model his post-presidency on some of the things that carter had accomplished. you know, some presidents look better when they're out of office, to everyone. and i think jimmy carter is an example of that. somebody who, you know, had a controversial and difficult presidency, and i think underrated in many ways, but has done incredible things as a post-president. >> absolutely. check out the book review in this sunday's "new york times." sam tanenhaus, great to see you again. come back! joe conason, stay with us, if you can. coming up, it was less than six months that "cosmo" editor in chief joanna coles landed her job. now she's trying to help other women land their next big job. "morning joe," back in a moment. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year.

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you actually watched bran da sort of stage directing this? >> it was one of the best girls that we saw of the day. it was one of the best shots. and then it went so wrong. >> i had fallen off the "cosmo" radar.

i'm not a regular subscriber anymore, since i'm 50. >> i understand that, but the job is at "cosmo," so what i would have suspected was you to have bother to go to the newsstand, sit down, and read that most recent issue cover to cover. >> that was a scene from tonight's "cosmo"-themed episode of "the job" airing on cbs. joining us now, joanna coles. great to have you on the show. >> i'm thrilled to be here, thank you. >> you look like you're really having fun on that show and making it very clear to people exactly what you need from them. >> as a new editor of a magazine, i have spent a lot of time recently interviewing people. and you realize very quickly how bad people are at job interviews. and often how little experience they've had of them. and i have had people come in with a latte and put the latte right down in front of me. i've had people come in with a huge designer bag, as if that were the triumph of their life. i've had girls with skirts so

short i could see their fallopian tubes. not a requirement for the job. >> don't need to see that! >> never want to see that. >> no. so do you interview mostly women? >> i interview some men too. >> is there a difference -- can you divide by gender, whether men are better? >> it's a very good question. women are, i think, more concerned with the accessories that come in with the interview. so there's a lot of bag showing off. and women are less good at talking about their previous experience in a very positive way. >> that's right. >> men have no issues sort of telling you how good they are. women are more hesitant. >> well, and i would say the accessories -- sorry, guys, to leave you out here, but the accessories are in their mind as well. like, they're worried about other things in the connection, instead of talking about what it is they bring to the table. >> and staying focused on the actual interview and being -- the thing that you find in all job interviews is that people are usually woefully underresearched in the actual job and where they want to work.

in tonight's episode, you see a woman who clearly didn't even bottom to read "cosmo." well, why are you applying for the job? >> do either of you have a question, or should i continue? >> please continue. we're having fun watching. >> all right, you said this on the new young generation of workers. "this is a generation of children who at school and in college were constantly winning prizes and receiving an "a" for showing up. there's no exception or understanding of what's needed in the real workplace. it's a constant frustration for employers. i need people who are going to be committed and realistic about what they need to do and who they are going to work at least half as hard as i did. this is a generation that spends a lot of time not learning to focus, because they spend a huge amount of time on social media, and i am tired as an employer of having worked with staff who spend a lot of time shopping online or just hanging out with their friends online." facebook, twitter. >> i think there's a moment that all bosses have, where they walk

around the floor, everybody's on a computer nowadays, and when you go over to talk to somebody at the computer, you see them, as my children do too at home, press the alternative screen, so you can't actually see what they were looking at. and it's usually a shopping site or they're on facebook with their friends or on twitter monitoring things. and i work in the media, so my staff are expected to be up to date on what's going on in the world and i want them on twitter and social media, but not all the time. >> exactly. >> and what happens is, it actually dilutes the concentration you need to do the job. that's the real the issue for employers at the moment, i think. >> okay. i love doing the column, by the way. and serious advice, i think, for the 20-something crowd, which is slightly entitled. >> it's very entitled. and the other thing is that the culture at large have become much more informal. and the job interview and your relationship with your employer is one of the few formal things left. and we have people saying, you know, i've friended you on

facebook, i'm going to send you my weekend photos. i don't want to see their weekend photos. >> no, i want to know what you can bring to the table. >> i want to know that they can do the job that, guess what, they're being paid to do. >> no, it's fascinating. tell me about "cosmo" and the focus on empowering women. that's always, i would think, been the focus of a women's magazine. what's different? what are you hoping to see happen with the magazine in the years to come? >> well, one of the things i'm very keen to do is to reclaim that extraordinary cultural moment that helen girly brown, probably the great editor of the 20th century, every issue was an event, everybody talked about it, she reframed the modern woman's magazine. and what i want to do is steal as much as i can from helen's legacy and transform it into a new century. and the thing i have learned, because the sort of essence or the dna of "cosmo," as well as empowering women at work and with fashion and beauty, is also in their relationships.

and we do a lot about love and a lot about confidence and negotiating relationships with the opposite sex. and the thing i have really learned is that not many people have enough sex and most people would like more better sex. >> let me just make sure? do we agree? do you all agree with what joanna is saying? >> hard to argue. >> most people would like more, yes. >> i have not met a single person in this job who said to me, you know, joanna, the problem is, i'm jus having too much sex. >> well, that would be too much information at a job interview, for sure. >> well, i certainly don't want to hear it at a job interview, but i'm thinking after-hours, not necessarily with employees. because everybody knows "cosmo" and the reason it's the world's biggest magazine is because it deals with stuff that are really important to people. >> and i think that the fall of a magazine like "cosmo," over the years, is it can deliver a message to women, and even younger women, that doesn't get delivered in other ways. one of the biggest problems, when i was governor is, we

couldn't get our young girls into science, math, engineering. they thought it would make them look nerdy. and how do we break that? >> or unattractive. >> or unattractive. because we need to get the brain power of women in those disciplines. >> well, i think that's beginning to change. and there are more women going into education. and there's such an awareness, we need more women in tech, we need more women in business. there were celebrations going on in washington because there are now 20 female senators. and it's still not a tipping point in terms of women's health not being an issue. why should women's health be an election issue? it should be about the economy, but women get diverted into having to protect their corner, which is frankly ridiculous. and it's because there aren't enough of them making the regular decisions. >> that's correct. and i think they're afraid to have more of them. and we need to get over that. we always complain about the boy's club. you know what, there isn't a girl's club, because we don't want, and we need to get over that. >> well, we do. let's start one right here,

right now. >> it's hypocritical to complain about a boy's club. >> the ceo facebook has a very funny story, she was the only woman at a sun valley conference, and one of the men turned to her and they'd been talking about the minute increase of women in business and she said, you girls are taking over. she was one woman in the room. >> but, it's interesting, politics has always tended to be a little bit more fluid than business. and not only do we have more of women getting elected, which is a great thing, but we have women's groups that are focusing on electing women. like you've had stephanie on -- >> right, from emily's list. >> she's phenomenal. >> and getting the best anding the brightest. they're recruiting the best and the brightest women to now run for office. >> they're very targeted and very focused on getting them out there and getting them elected. they're a superb organization. >> well, it is really great to meet you. >> good. well, i'm thrilled meeting you too. >> joanna coles, thank you very

much. the new issue of "cosmo" magazine, available today. and still ahead this morning, we have the week in review, because it is, finally, friday. but we can still help you see your big picture.

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all right. it's time to look at some of the morning papers. "the wall street journal," olympic runner oscar pistorius was in a south african court this morning, charged in the murder of his girlfriend. with family nearby, pistorius wept as he was charged. prosecutors will pursue premeditated murder charges against the track star. model reeva steenkamp, who was found shot to death thursday

morning at his home in a gated community. pistorius became a national hero in south africa for his performance in this summer's london games, the first ever double amputee to compete. the "los angeles times," the manhunt for christopher dorner is officially over. police have identified his remains as those found in a mountain cabin near big bear on thursday. the building was burnt to the ground after a s.w.a.t. team attempted to lure dorner out. dorner is accused of killing four people, including two law enforcement officials during a crime spree that he claimed was revenge for his firing from the lapd. and the "mobile press register," after days aboard a crippled ocean liner, the carnival cruise ship "triumph" made its return to port last night. passengers say the conditions on board were absolutely foul, but even leaving the "triumph" proved difficult with just one working elevator. it took nearly four hours for

all the passengers to disembark. that is a bad day. seattle times, the sister of slain u.s. ambassador chris stevens is trying to pick up the work her brother was unable to finish. the ambassador was working on a collaboration between libyan and american doctors when he was killed. now his sister is helping bring doctors from seattle and boston together to improve emergency medicine in benghazi. that's an amazing story. up next, the week in review. the patient, presented with

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do not fear the approaching asteroid. the nation of iran has solved the problem. we have launched our monkey back into space where it will deflect the asteroid with a coconut. iran. relax, we got this one. it's been another eventful week on "morning joe," with the state of the union, the pope's resignation, and plenty of political hijinx, here's the

"morning joe," week in review. >> this is my sweater and nobody's taking it from me. >> it's going to walk away it's so dirty. >> now, tomorrow -- this is like the eternal truth. ♪ >> the state of our union is strong. >> what did you think? >> i thought it was a good speech. >> i believe it was a guy who was playing to his base more than trying to figure out how to make washington work. the one answer that republicans have, the democrats. it's the circle of life. let me just say to kids at home, if you drink the water, own the water. stay thirsty, my friend? are you kidding me. >> when you see lindsey graham on "face the nation" and you're watching at home, are you like, yes! >> someone should give senator graham a snicker's bar and tell him to go sit in the corner until he's happy about something. >> it's terrorists, gangs, lone criminals! these are the perils we are sure to face!

the republican party, if they were smart, their leaders today would condemn it. but they're not smart, they're scared. how do you know your church, the catholic church, is in serious, serious trouble? >> how? >> when mike barnicle is speaking -- >> when i'm at the pope desk. >> the last time a pope resigned, mike barnicle was just about to get his driver's license. >> look at all this facial hair coming out of washington, d.c. this is like the 1700s. >> more like the 1800s. >> you were uncivil and then you grew a beard. you've become an elder statesman, of sorts. >> he's modern. who knows who tupac is. sorry, tupac. >> i thought it was sagacious. what a word! >> the budget negotiation is this big ball of hair. >> wow! >> hairballs!

>> what do you get when you put paul krugman, a blogger, and a tweeter in a basement? >> what? >> angry joe scarborough. >> why is phil here? >> kate upton's gone. she's not here. >> she's not here? >> nice going. >> thank you. thank you very much. it's fashion week. >> look at me! i'm happy. >> you going to be okay, joe? >> i'm happy. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. mallon brothers magic?

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it's time now to talk about what we learned today. ed, what did you learn today? >> mika, i always liked scott brown. i did. i thought he was a decent public servant. but boy, i learned today that we did something very special with warren. she's going to be very special in the congress. >> i think she's a force to be reckoned with. and boy, just everybody wait, seriously. i don't disagree. >> joe? >> well, i learned that we're returning to the era of cool inc., that it's trending in the republican party, cal coolidge.